Catharanthus roseus

16 Catharanthus roseus
Number: 3-665.25.09.
Clades: Rauvolfieae, Gentianales, Lamiidae, Asteranae, Angiospermae.

Introduction
The communication is disturbed. Boys and girls are trying to attract each other by giggling and teasing. In the end they come not further, they stay in the superficial contact. They are too shy to go further and make themselves small. But that is also felt as unjust so they get irritated and become rude, forcing themselves to take their space.
The contact can get stuck in a fight who is more than the other, who has to give in and be the minor, who is the one to blame. It can lead to a victim situation and guilt feelings. There are controversies about responsibilities, insults and rudeness.
The contact between husband and wife can be disturbed, as if the communication is on different levels, with different means. It is like being lost in translation. In the end they cannot ask each other anymore.

Mind
Desire to make contact with everyone in the world, to create a world where everyone is aware of their own autonomy and take responsibility fro their own life.
Delusion: being blamed, insulted, treated rudely.
Feeling unequal.
Sad, < being apart, lost contact.
Dream: girl pick the flower out of the hands of a boy and run away giggling.

Body
Heart: pain.

Discussion
Catharanthus roseus, Apocynaceae. Provers: Prover 9, Prover 14, Prover 17, Prover 6.
It is used here, because it is used in cancer. Like Vinca minor in Apocynaceae. During the C1 the women were talking and Prover 6 didn’ t say anything. They told stories about getting flowers, like Prover 23 told as an example of a possible situation that he came with flowers to Prover 14 to apologize and she refused. Then Prover 23 said there are no vases needed anymore and threw all the vases out of the house.
Prover 6 was invited all time to talk but he did not want to talk when asked. Prover 17 and Prover 14 were all the time trying to get to Prover 6. Prover 6 made gestures of being attacked, hands up and going backward. At first it was a kind of game, but the ladies were pretty indignant and felt not understood at all. It also looked like a game to everybody present. Much laughing what was going on. Prover 6 hardly could express and stayed aloof.
The women were still trying to communicate, but Prover 6 did it never right for them. He felt insulted. They felt a lot of aggression. Prover 9 stayed out of it, also aloof.
There was the accusation that Prover 6 was playing the victim. But he felt helpless. In the beginning it was like a game, but later it became quite personal. He felt with his back to the wall. Prover 23 suggested, they were “lost in translation”. The conversation was like on two levels, which never met.
It is a cancer remedy and with the aggression or defensiveness it could be Stage 12.
There was a lot of blame, responsibility for yourself, that was going on in the discussion.
Teasing is the beginning of the desire to have contact. (When Prover 6 had cut the flower in Nosy Komba, two young women approached from behind, picked a flower and giggled).
665.26.12, so it is also Apocynaceae.
Important that it had a lot to do with the question what real responsibility is in life, especially in a relationship.
The phases 2 and 6 could explain the situation of the strong tension. Phase 2 means that you are too shy and not able to make yourself clear. The 6 means
you then feel abused.

Proving Catharanthus roseus
Trituration proving, Nosy Be, Madagascar 27-9-2013 Provers: Prover 6, Prover 14, Prover 9, Prover 17.
Prover 17’s notes, Prover 6’ additions
Prover 14 and Prover 17 decided to do a proving together. Prover 14 asked Prover 6, if he would like to join them, “because you are so quiet”. Prover 17 chooses the plant. Prover 9 is invited, too.
The plant is the one, Prover 6 wanted to be proved because of the advice of a friend, who told him, that this plant was in use for the treatment of cancer on the island of Madagascar.
Prover 6 tells the story of the day before: Walking with Prover 23 on the island of Nosy Komba the day before the trituration, they found it in a front garden, nicely cultivated. A man was giggling when passing by. Prover 23 and Prover
6 took some parts of the plant and walked along. Two young native women approached from behind, unnoticed by Prover 23 and Prover 6, and one ripped off a flower of the bundle Prover 6 was holding. When Prover 23 and Prover 6 turned round, the young women were laughing and giggling. It was like they were flirting, trying to make contact with the two men.
Prover 14: “I am afraid, that this plant is cultivated, is not wild.”
Prover 6: “They will nail me to the wall, at the end of the proving.” (Do not remember why I said this.)
Prover 14 to Prover 9: “Do not ask your husband, just do it.”
Prover 6 writing
Strange; Ma sends Prover 23 away, because he would bring in too many images. I think I did, I did tell them the stories. But they feel I have given 40% of the information (meant: the above mentioned stories about Catharanthus). This is right, in a way: Prover 23 thought, they did not get the story as I had told them. Prover 14 talks about the fight she once had with Prover 23. The next day Prover 23 brought flowers. She threw them out of the window. If we do not need flowers, we do not need vases, either. And threw all the vases he found in the house out of the window.
Prover 14 said she wanted to be quiet; talks much; and so do Prover 17 and Ga. We sit like this: (see the drawing on IMG 8777 of the original text).
They are going to have fun together. (not at all my wording about our talk! added Prover 17)
Prover 17 tells about her parents’ relationship. Her mother really loves her father; she had a hard life with him; now she can see his good sides and really love him.
Prover 17 asked how Prover 6 would feel, but did not care about an answer. The three of them have good talks.
Prover 14 thinks: Prover 6 is quiet; Prover 9: he is concentrating; we do not know what he thinks; but they do not ask.
Prover 17 continues to talk about her father, who was in Russia during WW2, for six years; never could talk about it; (unwritten: was dominating her mother) just (brought her) flowers every Saturday (unwritten: which she did not appreciate, she did appreciate! but it could not substitute communication!). Prover 17’s mother said after the death of her husband: we never could talk, and I am sad about it.
Prover 14 says: six years in Russia.. imagine.. you cannot imagine.
Prover 6: my part is: write and help with translation, sometimes.
Prover 17’s father became the head of a coffin factory, was busy, ambitious; they start laughing about coffins à la mode.
Prover 17 also talks to Prover 6, talks to everyone, talks about her father; who did not take responsibility in the family, only in the firm.
Prover 17 writing
Prover 14 to the supervisor: “We hear nothing from Prover 6, but that ́s good”. (unwritten, remembered by Prover 17:) Prover 6 looks indignated
Prover 23, who didn’t hear quite well: Was this a nice sentence?
Prover 14: No, it is just good.
Prover 17 tells about her father, manager of a coffin factory, he also was very taciturn, but had a lot of aggressions inside, every Saturday he brought his wife flowers to apologize without words, but this did not reach his wife, she remained fed up. In the end of his life, she had to nurse him during a long disease and all her aggressions against him came out during this time.
But they also reached another level of their relationship, forgiveness and thank- fulness were also possible.
Prover 9 tells about her mother, who suffered from dementia.
When Prover 23 is leaving, Prover 17 asks Prover 6: “Do you want to join him?” Prover 6: “Would it make much difference?”, because the three women were tal- king together.
Prover 14 answers: “Yes maybe.”
Prover 6 is laughing.
Prover 9 says that not everybody has to talk, as an explanation of Prover 6 not talking from the beginning: you do not need to talk.
Prover 6 says, with hidden aggression: “Could you write it down?”.
Prover 6 meant: the sentences concerning his staying or leaving, resulting in the Yes, maybe; which obviously hurt me.
Prover 9: we can talk what we want and we know he is here, this is a good fee- ling.
Prover 17: this was a good feeling for my mother, when my father was in the coffin factory.
Prover 6 writing
For Prover 17 parents it was okay, that her father lived in Germany, due to his job. During these years, Mi was born. At some point the question arose, if he was her biological father. Yes. I have the same toes (laughter).
Prover 6 feels like sitting in a café where ladies meet; or: they have a tupper party or prepare food together for a dinner for all, when husbands come home from work.
For Prover 17 it was strange to see her father laying his arm around her mother. Prover 14 had eructations and yawning.
Prover 6’s stomach feels better than before the proving; he has had a digestion problem for days.
In the break the talk almost stopped. Then: about weather, wind, view, trees, the beauty of the landscapes. “It must be terrible here in rain time.” “No paradise at all.”
C2
Prover 6 writing, Prover 14 triturating and talking.
Prover 14 notices a bitter taste in her throat (after a sip of water).
Prover 6 notices eructations after stretching.
Prover 14: Their lives were bitter.
Prover 6 thinks: Will that go deeper or stay superficial?
It was hard for the men.. they had to go to war, take care of the family.. earning money was not easy.
Prover 14’s father worked hard for the family and suddenly he died. Also her mother, like Prover 17’s mother, flourished after the death of her husband. If the wife dies, the husband will soon have a new wife who will take care of him.
Prover 6 thinks: the women’ talk continues; more kind of a general analysis if women need men; a matter of dependency and independency?
It is very difficult to have an independent man, they say. Most of them just need easy sex and so, and to be taken care of.
It is difficult to find an autonomous woman or man.
You have to autonomous yourself, first. This will be the future.
In the past, the wives were dependent.
Wonderful idea, that women become independent with a network (?) No, a really good relationship, but both should be independent.
Prover 6: I do not know, if I am allowed to come closer.
Prover 17 to Prover 6: It would be interesting to know what you think. We do not know anything about you.
Prover 6: Every time I inhale to say something, somebody else takes over the conversation. As soon as I said this, Prover 14 feels blamed. All three fall in, and the discussion between the three continues (about what, is not remembered).
Now they start about talking what Prover 6 could think; Prover 17 and Prover 14 to Prover 9: “Stop defending him. He is responsible for himself.”
Prover 9: I felt responsible or, better: I was looking for an excuse why Prover 6 did not talk.
Prover 17 writing
Prover 6: There is not much space for me, well, it was funny most of the time, but now I have to change place, it affects me, the division between men and women.
Prover 17: we are talking and you are not talking, that is the only problem, male and female is bullshit, that is not the theme
Prover 14: do not blame us for this, it is yours, there is no problem at all
Prover 17: I can talk to women and men in a good way, there is a communication possible, because we all have female and male parts to develop, so what is the problem?
Prover 6 I felt this division between male and female so strong
Prover 14 writing
Prover 6 cannot reach the other land, we do not understand
Prover 6 writing
Prover 6: “You see how it goes wrong?”
Prover 17 and Prover 14: “Nothing goes wrong.”
They add: He just wrote instead of talking. If he didn’t like it, he could have changed it.”
“It is about the process of conversation.”
Is that enough?, asks Prover 6.
Prover 17: “Yes, that is enough.”
“Not talking is bad.”
Prover 17 writing
Prover 17: the main theme is COMMUNICATION.
Prover 6: I am not sure. We have no issue here.
I have a different kind of communication, to be silent and reading and listening. Prover 14: You do not need to talk like us but you have to explain yourself. Prover 6 felt offended when we said, if you leave or not leave, it is the same, if you are there or you are not there. He didn’t realize that he was hurt by it. Prover 6: I tried not to take it personally, I would say.
Prover 6: I thought I am out from the beginning.
Prover 6 feels we should have honoured him for writing.
Prover 14 and Prover 17 get angry.
Prover 14: tell us what you think is not right?
Prover 6: there was a lot of aggression in me. Why?
From the very beginning things went wrong, they all seemed to be insignificant. Prover 6: I did not have a proper place, before that I had chosen a different seat, which then was taken.
Prover 17, Prover 14: Why is it so difficult to say: I had a problem?
Prover 6: I don’t feel good, because I am not able to communicate with you. Prover 14: You are responsible for everything in your life. If you do not talk, it is your responsibility.
Prover 6: I don’t feel it that way.
Prover 14: Respect the law of universe. Don’t blame us, it is your responsibility, you are responsible for everything in your life.
Prover 6: No, there are situations, where one is not responsible.
Prover 17: for example?
Prover 6 for instance a one year old child.
Prover 17: you cannot compare. a child is not responsible, but you are an adult.
Rudeness in talking, misunderstanding, different ways of communication no clearness in communication, a little thing became a big issue
Prover 6 is missing an issue, the women are claiming the communication as the only issue.
Prover 6 realizes, that a long time he could cope with the situation, he was adapting a long time, but at one point, he could not stand it any longer, he did not take his space.
the question arises again, that he make himself a victim, which he denies, but Prover 14 and Prover 17 and Prover 9? feel blamed and get angry again and again.
want to make Prover 6 conscious about his responsibility caring for himself and not blaming the others about his state of being.
We were “lost in translation”, as Prover 23 summarizes our proving.

Prover 14 notes
My analysis of the proving Catharantus roseus
The proving was all about miscommunication. I want to explain my point of view by two examples. It is not only a male female issue, it can also happening between friends males or females, or parents and children.
1. Prover 17 told us the story of her parents. Her father was into the war for many years, and after the war he never spoke about it anymore. He had a lot
of aggression inside, every Saturday he brought flowers to his wife to apologize without words. But this did not reach his wife, she became fed up. ( because she did not give space to her own feelings, instead of being angry).
At the end of his life she had to nurse him, what brought out her aggression against him.
But they also reached another level of their relationship, where forgiveness and thankfulness were possible.
Her father did not deal with the wounds inside him, the pain, the misery, the sadness, he suppressed all these things a war can bring about.
When these emotions stay inside they accumulate and often they come out as aggression. They get projected onto the outside world, others make them angry, sad, etc. But he has to realize it is HIS anger, HIS sadness. The others can just make him aware of it.
So because he could not communicate about this with his wife, he does not take responsibility for this feelings, his wife feels excluded from his feelings, feels no contact on that level and becomes fed up with him. ( she could have said: I feel excluded, she also could not give space to her feelings makes herself responsable for them)
He takes responsibility for his family, he works hard, and every Saturday he brings flowers, a nice picture of a happy family.
He creates a reality according to his wishes, and does not deal with the true reality. You could say he plays a roll.
And of course the pain sometimes is too great to deal with it, or it is not the right moment, you can be tired or just not in the mood.
People often identify themselves with there roll as a father, a mother.
a husband, a doctor, etc. they are very responsible for this, they know what is their value in the outside world, but cannot look, connect, give space to their inner feelings.
In a way all of us have that “perfectieplaatje” we say in Dutch, it is the picture of perfection, we have to show in the outside world.

2.
After the proving Prover 6 discussed the proving with the other participants. I was still very tired and touched by the emotions this proving had bring about. So Prover 6 told the story very nice, like an entertainer and people laughed.
I didn’t recognize myself at all in his story, but because it could lead to more misunderstandings I didn’t say anything.
After the proving I asked Prover 6 why he made a show out of it and he answered:
‘I could not handle this state, it was beyond my borders’, so therefore I presented it the way I did.
I said, why didn’t you say that, my need is not to listen to nice words, my need is to communicate with your true feelings. ( I did not say: I felt lonely, I felt excluded).
The nice words and the flowers are the same story. When Prover 6 don’t communicate with his feelings, project them out, makes someone else guilty for them because he cannot handle them, take no responsibility for his true feelings, how we can communicate with him?
And I don’t blame Prover 6, I also did not take responsibility for my feelings, I project them out as anger, I did not give space to my feelings of being excluded, not understood, feeling lonely, and when I give them no space, I never can go to a deeper level of myself or the proving, because for going there I have to look at them give them space make myself responsible for them, and not to act them out as anger.
And that feelings of exclusion etc. I know already for a long time into myself, so it has nothing to do with Prover 6, but with events in my life, and some circumstances can trigger them.
So in my point of view we we stayed in this proving into the ‘acting out’, and therefore we could not reach the ‘real problem’.
And communication brings forgiveness, thankfulness, awareness, consciousness.

Prover 17 notes
When I am reading these emails, I get the feeling, that the proving is going on and on.
Feeling of being unloved of the group could be one of the issues.
This is fitting to the beginning with giggling of boys and girls in the age of puberty, who are trying to get in contact.
To be offended and to feel unloved and to be out of the group happens rather often and fast at this age.
When we look at the numbers we see 665, so communication is an issue.
And the Phase 2 has a great impact on insecurity (Feeling unloved, unsure, quarrelling, we know this from Magnesium) and
Subphase 6 with the feeling of being abused, being excluded, not to belong to the group, to be misunderstood.
In a way we all had to deal with these sensations and feelings, when I read the text, there is the issue of superficial or not superficial, of misunderstanding.
of struggling with words, giggling and laughing, as Prover 6 has felt it at his point of view, I did not, so there is a lot of different realizing of the same situation.
And we did not come to an end, this is normal in puberty.
If it could be Stage 12, so the quarrelling is going on and on, things do not get better, one always has to defend, as we know.
In the Internet you can read, that the plant also was used for Malaria, so this endless painful discussions also could be expression of that stage, I do not know, Ian will know.
I have copied you from the internet about the plant, the issue if BIOPIRACY is coming up, which struggles me because of the occurences Prover 6 and Gabi had to deal with after our departure.
Biopiracy is a situation where indigenous knowledge of nature, originating with indigenous peoples, is used by others for profit, without permission from and with little or no compensation or recognition to the indigenous people them- selves.[3] For example when bioprospectors draw on indigenous knowledge of medicinal plants which is later patented by medical companies without recognizing the fact that the knowledge is not new, or invented by the patenter, and depriving the indigenous community to the rights to commercial exploitation of the technology that they themselves had developed. Critics of this practice such as Greenpeace,[4] claim these practices contribute to inequality between developing countries rich in biodiversity, and developed countries hosting companies that engage in ‘biopiracy’.
The rosy periwinkle case dates from the 1950s. The rosy periwinkle, while native to Madagascar, had been widely introduced into other tropical countries around the world well before the discovery of vincristine. This meant that researchers could obtain local knowledge from one country and plant samples from another. The locally known medical properties of the plant were not the same as the medical properties discovered and commercially used by Eli Lilly[citation needed]. The use of the plant as a cure for diabetes was the original stimulus for research, but cures for cancer were the most important results. Different countries are reported as having acquired different beliefs about the medical properties of the plant.[8] The Hodgkin’s lymphoma chemotherapeutic drug vinblastine is also derivable from the rosy periwinkle. [9]
Attached the text as I will send it to Prover 23. I am really tired of changing sentences and words to the feeling, I had in several situations, so what.
let it be, let it be good and enough. Perhaps this is the solution, to be able to let it be.
Have a good time and best wishes to you all Prover 17.